Interview of Gail Lipshultz

Tom Buckner: Gail, can you tell me how long you've known Jim Styers?
Gail Lipshultz: It's been about eight years.
Tom Buckner: Where did you first meet him at?
Gail Lipshultz: Phoenix College.
Tom Buckner: Phoenix College? Were you both students there?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, we were taking classes -- same class, too.
Tom Buckner: What kind of class was he taking?
Gail Lipshultz: Accounting.
Tom Buckner: And you were taking the same one?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah.

Tom Buckner: Okay. During your relationship with him, the time you knew him, did he ever act out against you, screaming at you or striking or using physical force with you?
Gail Lipshultz: No, not -- he never got physically violent towards me.
Tom Buckner: Never physically?
Gail Lipshultz: Sometimes he would yell or a couple times punched the wall.
Tom Buckner: What was his drinking history? Did he drink at all, alcoholic beverages?
Gail Lipshultz: No. Well, when I knew him he just -- had occasionally social drinking but (inaudible) drinking.

Comment: GAIL'S assessment of JIM STYERS is in sync with almost all other statements of people who knew him - STYERS showed no tendency towards violence in his actions.

Tom Buckner: Prior to Christopher's murder, when was the most recent time you saw Jim?
Gail Lipshultz: Oh, I saw him the day before when he dropped off Wendy.
Tom Buckner: Okay, that would be on the 1st of December of 1989?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, probably.
Tom Buckner: How long had he had Wendy for that time?
Gail Lipshultz: Well, we just like kind of switched back and forth, kind of, during the week because I was going to school and working, so he would watch her. He was supposed to come pick her up the next day.

Comment: This description of STYERS' interaction with children in general is fully in sync with the statements of Debra and her sister, SANDRA PICKINPAUGH. People considered JIM STYERS a reliable babysitter, and here MS. LIPSCHULTZ confirms the statements of both STYERS and Debra Milke, that JIM had dropped Wendy off on December 1st, 1989 (Friday) and planned to pick her up again on the next day.

Tom Buckner: How do you believe he acted, or how did you see him acting around young children?
Gail Lipshultz: He usually got along pretty well with them.
(Inaudible)
Tom Buckner: Did you ever see him discipline the children in a negative manner or a manner in which you wouldn't approve of?
Gail Lipshultz: Once when he was watching Jason, Christopher's cousin, he got mad at him (inaudible) ran out in the parking lot, almost got hit by a car.
Tom Buckner: What did Jim do?
Gail Lipshultz: He threw -- threw him into the car and - I can't remember -- he kicked him or something (inaudible) mind my own business.
Tom Buckner: How old was Jason?
Gail Lipshultz: He was the same age as' Christopher, he was about three at the time, three and a half.
Tom Buckner: This is Chris' cousin?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah. Other than that, I'd never seen him do anything.

Comment: This short story told is actually easy to picture: while taking care of SANDRA PICKINPAUGH'S son JASON, the little boy ran out into a parking lot and was almost hit by a car. STYERS, scared, saved him and saved JASON and overreacted - he was overwhelmed by anger at JASON'S behavior and relieved that he had not been hurt. This was a one-time incident, and STYERS actions, though probably wrong, were understandable. Such things happen every day and this incident is certainly not circumstantial evidence that STYERS would murder a child.

Tom Buckner: That was it?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah.
Tom Buckner: How long have you known Roger Scott?
Gail Lipshultz: Probably about six or seven years. I never -- I never spent that much time around him (inaudible).
Tom Buckner: How did you meet him?
Gail Lipshultz: He just -- Jim went over to his house, he lived he near -- he just -- I just went along with him.
Tom Buckner: Is this the one over on Bethany Home?
Gail Lipshultz: Oh, I don't -- no, this was (inaudible) 7th Avenue and Roosevelt, around that area.
Tom Buckner: Do you know how Jim knew Roger?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, he said they were best friends in high school.
Tom Buckner: You made the comment that you really never cared for, never really liked Roger Scott. Can you tell me why?
Gail Lipshultz: Well, most of the time that I knew him, he was -- he liked to drink and he would have (inaudible).
Tom Buckner: Was he working at all?
Gail Lipshultz: No.
Tom Buckner: Was Jim Styers ever arrested for anything while you were going with him?
Gail Lipshultz: No.

Tom Buckner: What was your opinion of Mark Milke when you were around him? Did you ever see him with Christopher?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, once in a while.
Tom Buckner: How did he treat Christopher?
Gail Lipshultz: He seemed happy to be around him.
Tom Buckner: What about Roger Scott, how did he treat Christopher?
Gail Lipshultz: The way he acted, just kind of seemed like he wished the kid wasn't around. He'd sometimes make comments like: Boy, I wish you'd fall down the stairs. Stuff like that.

Comment: An interesting and shocking statement! As we know, SCOTT had serious mental problems and a bipolar personality. With STYERS being his only friend - therefore some kind of an alpha-wolf - plus his dislike for CHRISTOPHER MILKE, the scenario described in the interview of ROBERT E. JOHNSON definitely makes sense. JOHNSON claimed that SCOTT confessed to him that he shot CHRISTOPHER, not JIM.

Tom Buckner: What caused you and Jim to separate?
Gail Lipshultz: (Inaudible) wasn't really one thing.
Tom Buckner: Can you pinpoint it for me? Is it something he did or just --
Gail Lipshultz: No, (inaudible) either of us did.
Tom Buckner: What kind of an opinion do you have now against Jim Styers?
Gail Lipshultz: I'm not sure how to answer that.
Tom Buckner: Pardon?
Gail Lipshultz: I'm not sure how to answer that.
Tom Buckner: Yeah. Just answer as best as you can. Have you formed an opinion of him now?
Gail Lipshultz: You know, I can just never tell when he's telling the truth or not. I don't know what to think.
Tom Buckner: Did you have trouble with that one -- during your relationship with him did you have troubles with him at the time whether he was telling the truth or not?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, occasionally.
Tom Buckner: Have you talked to him since he's been arrested for the murder of Christopher Milke?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, he's called here a few times.
Tom Buckner: What has he talked to you about?
Gail Lipshultz: He usually wants to know how Wendy's doing, if she's okay.
Tom Buckner: Has he told you anything about the case?
Gail Lipshultz: He hasn't really said much about it.
Tom Buckner: What has he told you about it?
Gail Lipshultz: Well, he has said that he, you know, didn't do it. Once -- well, this was just about a month after he'd been in. I think, he said that --
Tom Buckner: (Inaudible)
Gail Lipshultz: This was longer ago than that, this was like right before Christmas, he said something to the effect that he thought he would be out for Christmas. (Inaudible)

Comment: Here we can see that STYERS consistently claimed to various people he is innocent of the murder. We learn that he told this to GAIL, and he also told this during his jailhouse talk to ROBERT E. JOHNSON, a co-inmate at the Maricopa County Jail. And he made the same statement in his letters to Debra. Only, in these letters he additionally confessed to her that he had indeed been at the murder-scene, but that ROGER SCOTT shot the little boy, without STYERS having any knowledge about SCOTT'S intentions. Determining the exact extent to which STYERS did or did not participate in CHRIS' murder is not the purpose of this web site. But the evidence points at ROGER SCOTT and shows that he played a far more active role in the little boy's killing than he claimed to police.

Tom Buckner: Has he said who did it?
Gail Lipshultz: No, he didn't.
Tom Buckner: What's your opinion of, if you have any, of Roger Scott? Did you talk to Roger since he's been arrested?
Gail Lipshultz: No, I haven't talked to --
Tom Buckner: What about Deb --
Gail Lipshultz: -- anybody else.
Tom Buckner: Debra Milke, have you talked to her?
Gail Lipshultz: No.

Tom Buckner: Did you ever see either one of them drunk?
Gail Lipshultz: No. I know she said that Mark drank and took drugs but I've never seen him using them.
Tom Buckner: Okay. Have you ever seen Jim Styers drunk?
Gail Lipshultz: Once he had a little bit too much, he was just acting kind of silly.
Tom Buckner: Have you ever seen Roger Scott drunk?
Gail Lipshultz: All I can say, he drank most of the time but I never -- he was -- he drank so often, it was usually -- he was kind of used to it or whatever. You couldn't really tell the difference.
Tom Buckner: Did you ever see Jim with a gun?
Gail Lipshultz: No.
Tom Buckner: No?
Gail Lipshultz: (Inaudible)
Tom Buckner: The whole eight years you were with him, you never saw him with a gun?
Gail Lipshultz: No.
Tom Buckner: What about Roger?
Gail Lipshultz: Nope, neither of them.

Tom Buckner: Do you think he's capable of shooting and killing a small child like that?
Gail Lipshultz: It would surprise me that he would but I don't know -- he had shot people before (inaudible).
Tom Buckner: When he was in the service?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, in the service, but --
Tom Buckner: A little bit different than shooting a four-year-old boy though.
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah. It's a little different than taking a kid out in the desert and killing him.
Tom Buckner: The weekend that Christopher was murdered out in the desert, where was Wendy?
Gail Lipshultz: She was here with me.
Tom Buckner: When had Jim brought her home? Do you remember what day? Like you say, it was from the day before?
Gail Lipshultz: Oh, you mean when he brought her here?
Tom Buckner: Right.
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, the day before, in the evening. He said he was going to pick -- he wanted to pick her up like early the next day. I told him, wait 'til like later in the afternoon because I wanted to take her somewhere.

Comment: Another interesting point. Why - if the allegation of a murder conspiracy was true - would STYERS want to pick WENDY up early that Saturday morning? That wouldn't make sense at all. Only GAIL'S turning down of STYERS wished-for time to pick up their daughter the next day inadvertently allowed the terrible string of events that occurred on that tragic Saturday, December the 2nd, 1989. Unfortunately, this was another case where the police were so determined to "prove" the conspiracy theory that ROGER SCOTT had told them that any evidence that conflicted with his story was ignored or pushed aside. BUCKNER did not pursue GAIL LIPSHULTZ' statement that STYERS had wanted to pick up WENDY early Saturday, the same time when the "conspiracy" was to be carried out. If GAIL'S statement had been followed up and confirmed, this would have proven that STYERS could not have told Debra they were going to "do it", as detective SALDATE alleged in his fabricated report.

Tom Buckner: So he never picked her up that weekend at all?
Gail Lipshultz: No. (Inaudible)
Tom Buckner: What kind of shoes did Jim usually wear?
Gail Lipshultz: Usually wore sneakers.
Tom Buckner: Sneakers?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah.
Tom Buckner: Do you remember what kind they were?
Gail Lipshultz: No.
Tom Buckner: No brand name or anything like that?
Gail Lipshultz: No, I don't know. He went through a few pairs during that time.

Tom Buckner: You never heard either one of these -- either Roger, Jim or Debra planning the murder of Christopher?
Gail Lipshultz: No.
Tom Buckner: Or joking about it or saying they wished the kid was dead or anything like that?
Gail Lipshultz: Like I said, Roger made comments occasionally about how -- you know, just joking, serious, or what.

Comment: The second time that MS. LIPSHULTZ confirms that she heard ROGER SCOTT, and only ROGER SCOTT, make hostile comments toward CHRIS. And her last remark - "joking, serious, or what" - indicates GAIL'S concern that SCOTT'S remarks might have been a serious matter. There is no mention of any role of JIM STYERS or Debra.

Tom Buckner: Did you ever see Roger around any girls?
Gail Lipshultz: Not really.
Tom Buckner: Did Jim pretty much stay with you when he was living with you? Did he go out with other women, or do you know?
Gail Lipshultz: Not as far as I know, he didn't.
Tom Buckner: How did Roger Scott appear to you as far as his sexual preference?
Gail Lipshultz: As far as I know, he liked women.
Tom Buckner: He liked women?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah.
Tom Buckner: Okay. Was Jim Styers active in any churches?
Gail Lipshultz: Yeah, he went to the Valley Cathedral.